Whatnot CPO: "We regret that product management exists"

In a candid discussion about the evolution of product roles, Tom Verilli, Chief Product Officer at Whatnot, shared a provocative take that might surprise many in the tech industry: "Since its earliest inception, the Whatnot product team has built was built on the somewhat simple premise: We regret that product management exists."

Speaking on the Lenny's Podcast, Verilli elaborated on this contrarian view, explaining that the traditional product management structure, which often involves a specific ratio of PMs to engineers within development pods, can inadvertently "infantilize the engineers and the designers." He argues that these professionals are perfectly capable of making sound decisions but are often prevented from doing so by the constant presence of a PM acting as a "babysitter."

The Case Against Over-Indexing on PMs

Verilli traced the origins of the product manager role back to a time before it existed, when founders or CEOs directly communicated with engineering and design teams. As internet businesses scaled rapidly, the need to delegate and trust others arose, but this rarely manifested as a specialized role. Instead, engineers and designers often possessed the necessary context to make informed decisions.

The core argument for Whatnot's philosophy is that it would be optimal if engineers and designers already had the context needed to make great decisions, being sufficiently in touch with users and their needs. Verilli stated, "The only argument as far as I'm aware for why you would want product management to be a specialist function is really it's a trade, not a qualification. It's something you get good at by doing. It's a muscle." However, he cautioned that by abstracting engineers and designers from these decision-making processes, their own "muscle gets underdeveloped."

Verilli acknowledged that product management plays a crucial role and can provide significant leverage for critical initiatives, enabling design and engineering to excel in their crafts. However, he stressed that "wherever possible it's kind of optimal to not have a product manager."

Hiring for Impact: What Verilli Looks For

The conversation also touched on Whatnot's highly selective hiring process for PMs. Verilli revealed that in the past two years, 31,832 people applied for a product manager role, and only one was hired. This selectivity highlights the company's focus on specific qualities.

What's trending down in Verilli's hiring criteria? "Folks who spend a lot of their time in their interviews talking about driving alignment and stakeholder management," he said. Verilli believes that a segment of PMs have specialized in "politics" rather than technical or customer-centric skills. Candidates who naturally lean into relationship building and alignment without demonstrating deeper product thinking are less appealing.

Conversely, what truly impresses Verilli is the ability of candidates to demonstrate both "macro thinking and micro thinking." He wants to see individuals who can articulate an end state and then exhibit an almost impatient drive to validate and execute. He values specificity in describing past accomplishments, particularly for those who have driven novel solutions or navigated complex changes, rather than simply "babysitting things that existed."

The Rise of the Individual Contributor and AI's Role

Verilli expressed excitement about the trend of PMs moving away from large-scale organizational management and towards more individual contributor (IC) work. He noted that historically, successful PMs were promoted into director roles, effectively removing them from the hands-on building process. This, he argued, led to a "yo-yo development process" where great ideas were reviewed and rejected through multiple layers.

At Whatnot, managers and directors are expected to spend 90%+ of their time in IC work, with Verilli himself still dedicating about 50% of his time to it. This approach, he believes, allows for quicker decision-making, greater impact, and keeps leadership connected to the "ground floor."

The conversation also touched on the role of AI. While not the sole driver, Verilli acknowledged that AI tools significantly enhance productivity for individuals. He highlighted AI's impact on data science, enabling quick cohort analysis and sensitivity modeling, and its ability to help engineers and PMs understand codebases more readily. "There's no excuse not to understand that or a nuance layer now," he stated, referring to the accessibility of information through AI tools.

Ultimately, Verilli's perspective challenges conventional wisdom, pushing for a more empowered, hands-on approach to product development where core teams are trusted to make decisions, with product management serving as a supportive function rather than a gatekeeper.